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Hermes and Naima on PS3 NPDRM SELFs, Encryption Differs

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206w ago - Today Waninkoko mentioned he agrees with Hermes and Naima's recent views on the discussion of PS3 NPDRM SELFs, how their encryption differs, GeoHot and what PS3 Firmware 3.60 may bring to combat PlayStation 3 hackers.

Below is a rough translation from Elotrolado, to quote:

"Let's see... speaking of bans and stories...

I like to play magic, astrology and / or fortune-telling, so what is written below is not from any of the three.

The first consequence that will bring the firmware 3.60 is that all applications signed with the utility in make_self_npdrm created by Geohot stop working.

Oh Wait! That's not what I had said 'sceners' by the mouth of all are phrases like 'are key signed with Sony, you can not do anything'

That would be true if they were well signed, but the truth is that they are not.

Without going into deep detail about how the Sony npdrm I will explain briefly, when Sony makes the process to generate an executable npdrm valid, generates a random key pair unique for each executable, those keys are encrypted with the ERK + npdrm RIV, which is available reverse-engineering the firmware PS3 coded counterpart obtaining them.

The keypair is encrypted then clear the rest of the encrypted file and its counterpart is included as such in the header. The ERK + RIV npdrm Sony counterpart to decrypt the header and get the keypair clear after which we can follow the rest of the decryption process of the application.

I have intentionally omitted details, but I think the important concept is clear.

Geohot with cheap excuse not to encourage piracy has never published the key then Sony would decrypt all npdrm. That would be honest if it came from someone else, but in the case of a megalomaniacal egomaniac we suspect other hidden agendas.

Kakaroto said recently that "now the hackers we must also reverse engineer Geohot both work as that of Sony's as clear sign of his displeasure toward Geohot control policy.

My general definition of piracy would be the misappropriation of something in order to obtain personal benefit Geohot just what has been done.

Have you used the keys and the Sony code to position a checkpoint in the 'scene' for PS3, be he who decides who can do the rest of us.

Hypocrisy has been used at will as best suited him, we do not condemn it piracy on one hand but on the other metldr the key post because it is a contradiction.

Has clearly used his position to a position from childhood, I think Geohot has seen too many movies, openly seek work, the sad reality is that in the professional world or for fellow would not today. If you want to work professionally is formed first.

The question of its usefulness in make_self_npdrm is that it uses a keypair static since it does not include the ERK + RIV Sony npdrm keypairs can not generate random for each file.

Has other errors, such as creating blank File Digest, which are unmistakable signs that the executables created are legitimate, but these other errors could be corrected by any competent programmer. However, the static keypair has no solution without the ERK + RIV npdrm Sony.

Sony is therefore extremely easy to block the execution, blacklist, all executable to use that keypair, and Geohot knows.

In fact in your source code includes a request to Sony: 'Please do not add to blacklist the key pair that I use, I have offered applications lack the ability to decipher the npdrm'

If we add your child open and work order which I have mentioned, I feel the urgent need to address a question to Geohot, the same question is also the desire of all employees and people who are part of Sony and I even think that part of the user community.

Geohot, kid, "Are you stupid or you do it? just that I thought a few days ago +risas

In addition, the patch is applied by mounting the flash in writing, decoding module, it gets the patch messed with the payloads for pkgs (four bytes), re-encrypts it and writes it to the flash.

This is just watching the elf text strings with a hex editor (the syscall to mount the device is published in http://ps3wiki.lan.st/index.php/Lv-2_syscalls

Sys_storage_util_mount 837 (?) Parameters: Device Name (eg CELL_FS_IOS: BUILTIN_FLSH1) Device File System (eg CELL_FS_FAT) Device Path (eg / dev_flash), 0, Write Protection (0 or 1), 0, 0, 0

Sys_storage_util_unmount 838 (?) Parameters: Device Path (eg / dev_flash)

Of course, what I do is I can not control 50 areas and 50 fregaos get into, because at the end, I can find a mess that can not leave (other than each has its strengths and weaknesses.) Thing, is that all of our own solve the puzzle and all methods are public and that each work on what you like most independent of the others.

I certainly hoped to have the functional fail0verflow tools that allow me or others, to create the necessary code, but it certainly was very much in disagreement with the path taken by geohot to guard things, basing his work on the part of work of others. That makes a pass at a small application, but not something that requires the best minds and some tranaparencia for anyone charged with the responsibility and does not wither.

A big companies we give a crap: I do not care if you're brilliant or mediocre, if you're black or white glove: we all get into the same bag and say the same for all: the mess that was previously head better. And if not interested in the game, not to intervene.

So it's understandable that people be careful not to look for trouble, but it is understandable that you do your job, you keep it and you become solely responsible for certain things that are happening, because then, you cut what hangs and what does not hang as well, do not farm your friends and how to proceed, you prevent this forward and put others at risk trying to do the same as your own + the boot.

PD: Anyway, I do not want to lose, for us and much to gain and dismantle the arguments of SONY or most of their arguments, but also to be scared enough to do what I should have done from the beginning : o nothing, or what others are doing in this regard.


Waininkoko adds the following: "Totally agree.

By the way, what a surprise when I told you about the XML and then saw Finally, geohot has done the same thing I already got done, but in a different way."

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Comments 35 Comments - Go to Forum Thread »

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#25 - DENEGRAO - 206w ago
Geohot is very capable hacker, but his real intent is to work on Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft, so if a was a dev, i will never wait for something from him. About the devs, stop complain about Geohot and do what you gotta do!

#24 - fldash - 206w ago
fldash's Avatar
geohot seems to think that by touting his anti-piracy stance and not releasing certain information that Sony cares. Sony doesn't care, they are pissed.

The only thing geohot is doing is slowing down development by not releasing everything he knows about the system. Sony is going to sue (and has already) regardless of him being anti-piracy and keeping things he considers to enable piracy under-wrap.

If he has the NPDRM keys to decrypt he should release them. If he knows ERK + npdrm RIV, he should release it so all our code isn't signed with the same key pair...

#23 - nipsen - 206w ago
nipsen's Avatar
It's a rough google-translation, but they suggest the same others thought when looking at the security design - geohot doesn't have "the root-key", he has a method to extract an existing key-pair.

Just like the last time - the approach he uses isn't going to be impossible to counter, just as it's completely useless for packaging and running homebrew you compile yourself.

But unfortunately, the guy just keeps impressing Sony's producer-spawn, and they go into high gear when it comes to spending resources on legally questionable, and market-hostile ways to limit their customers.

Geohot doesn't seem to get this, that Sony has no interest in keeping their device "unlocked". (Apple did with the iPhone, because it would allow them to sell phones outside the American service providers). And that there will be no silent admittance of defeat for Sony's folks here.

In fact, if Sony really did make a mistake when applying the security model they've developed, Sony will most likely abandon the ps3 and the psn in general. And they will state something along the lines that "crackers destroyed the ps3", made it unfit for the market - and they will believe it as well.

So even though the guy doesn't actually have a way to reverse-engineer the ps3's signing process, producer spawn is going to go off on a rampage. While we're not getting anything useful.

The point is that Geohot isn't contributing anything useful, while making sure that unnecessary steps that inconvenience everyone is taken. We had that with linux as well. Geohot didn't discover anything useful then to actually remove the copy-protection, and the exploit that turned up later wasn't based on a low-level hack.

#22 - routehero - 206w ago
routehero's Avatar
Quote Originally Posted by parallx View Post
And for the record, I own more actual old school cartridges than you can imagine, along with tons of original hardware. I played atari when it was NEW.

I don't see the relevance. A backup manager, such as multiMAN, is enabling a user to backup his games to local disk (or USB) and play from there.

An emulator, such as SNES or MAME, is enabling a user to download a ROM (forgive me if I doubt most people's ability to dump a cartridge or arcade machine to linux/win32), copy to local disk (or USB), and play from there.

They are in effect equal in purpose and ability. Both have the purpose of allowing a user to play the game from local disk, and both have the ability to enable copyright infringement.

It's wonderful that you're waiting for an XBMC (or other) port, but that's not likely to happen. If you do want such a contraption, why not buy a Boxee? It comes with XBMC and is cheaper than a PS3.

Too many devices, you say? More consolidation, you say? Man up and put your equipment in your basement and run an HDMI cable through your walls to your TV. Get an RF-capable remote to control your devices down below.

#21 - semitope - 206w ago
semitope's Avatar
Need this to be translated properly. I couldn't read it.

Is geohot really the only ones with these keys? No-one else can use the fail0verflow information to get further?


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