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Air Force May Suffer Collateral Damage on PS3 OtherOS Removal


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241w ago - Although not surprising, today ArsTechnica.com reports that the US Air Force may suffer collateral damage (especially since investing in 300 followed by another 2200 consoles for research) due to Sony's recent decision to remove the OtherOS functionality via PS3 Firmware 3.21 from the PlayStation 3 entertainment system.

However, the Air Force stated they are aware of the recent class action lawsuits against Sony over this matter, to quote:

"We will have to continue to use the systems we already have in hand," a representative told Ars, "but this will make it difficult to replace systems that break or fail.

The refurbished PS3s also have the problem that when they come back from Sony, they have the firmware (gameOS) and it will not allow Other OS, which seems wrong.

We are aware of class-action lawsuits against Sony for taking away this option on systems that use to have it."



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#32 - itwong - 241w ago
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$ony can always make a special firmware for the air force with otherOS support. So I don't think this will change much.

#31 - saviour07 - 241w ago
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Quote Originally Posted by laggmaster View Post
Ok it may work once maybe twice but sony will eventually change the way the code is compiled so that we cant use the same method any more... and we are back to square one. Why? we cant run unsigned code!

yeh i believe that would eventually happen after a few custom PUP's but the need for unsigned code is just a lil bit out of reach right now and untill then this is probably the best idea/method of a semi-hack for now.
Quote Originally Posted by laggmaster View Post
and untill we have the ability to run unsigned code it would not be feasible to impliment a hack as we would just be shot down eventually... there is no reason for a custom firmware other than to run unsigned code if you believe otherwise you are a fool.

i'm unsure whether this is directly related to my quote?
i was stating that if a hybrid PUP could be created it would be nice if an update blocker could be added HOWEVER i'm also acknowledging this would require custom code to be added to the PUP which i recognise isn't possible... It's basically just me ranting on about ideas i know wont happen

EDIT: i realise you are pointing out that if unsigned code could be run on the system then the need for hybrid PUP's and the inclusion of update blockers within them would be redundant as it would be best put to use for a CFW
Quote Originally Posted by laggmaster View Post
And may i add with a proper system upkeep, and possibly adding liquid cooling to the cluster, the machines could be maintained a lot longer than 5-7 years... i assume its in a clean room so that should help on machines life too

yeh it's no doubt that the cluster will be kept in some sort of clean room with better liquid cooling than standard, i was just basing the 5-7 year on a normal consumer.
i reckon the USAF are probably looking for a minimum life span of 10 years tbh.
Quote Originally Posted by laggmaster View Post
Couldn't agree with you more Linux is primarily a free (though i have found some that want you to pay like 19.99 for a nice distro, server distros can be very expensive) opensource sandbox for developers and Microshaft has a monopolly on the market because they were/are generaly user friendly and easy to program for...

It's a sad truth, Windows is the simplest platform to dev for and is extremely end-user friendly leading to the ridiculous prices for the Windows OS...
Quote Originally Posted by laggmaster View Post
Ummm if it was compatible with windows then they would have to pay Microsoft for rights to use there OS on there console... i just dont think that would ever happen...

No you've misunderstood. i didn't say for it to be compatible WITH Windows, but to be as compatible with applications as Windows is.
Meaning the level of compatiblity that Windows shows for applications on the current market would have to be something Sony would compete against with apps for the PS3 in their own app store/OS.
Quote Originally Posted by laggmaster View Post
there could do linux this way but i fear that that would open up a programing hole to hack the ps3 very fast since your running in gameos and thus running signed code it could probably easily be lead to dumping the hole gameos encryption codes and all...

i also doubt Sony would release an OtherOS that can be run ontop/within the GameOS as it would be too risky with alot of potential for security breaches.

#30 - laggmaster - 241w ago
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Quote Originally Posted by saviour07 View Post
My reason being, that once the ability to create a hybrid PUP is known/perfected then anything released by Sony therein will only result in a cat-and-mouse style of FW releases.

The method will remain the same regardless of any new OFW, and if any changes are made to the method via a Sony update, it would not take long before that is circumvented as well.

Ok it may work once maybe twice but sony will eventually change the way the code is compiled so that we cant use the same method any more... and we are back to square one. Why? we cant run unsigned code!
Quote Originally Posted by saviour07 View Post
Obviously it would be nice if spoofing/auto hybrid FW update/OFW update blockers could be included inside any hybrid PUP's created (so constant updating ISN'T required!) but they would all be custom code and not signed by sony and obviously not feasable... but its a nice idea *dreams* lol

and untill we have the ability to run unsigned code it would not be feasible to impliment a hack as we would just be shot down eventually... there is no reason for a custom firmware other than to run unsigned code if you believe otherwise you are a fool.
Quote Originally Posted by saviour07 View Post
The PS3 has been said to have a life span of 10 years (granted that is for the "Playstation 3" brand and not the individual console itself).

Tbh though I've had my PS2 for almost 10 years and so with good care (and a bit of luck) the USAF can be looking at about 5-7 years in terms of a life expiration on the PS3's they currently use.

Which surely would have been in some kind of budget report when comparing 5 years use of PS3's to an investment in a unique supercomputer within the same period of time.

Obviously the PS3's are more cost effective, otherwise the air force wouldn't have chosen them.

And may i add with a proper system upkeep, and possibly adding liquid cooling to the cluster, the machines could be maintained a lot longer than 5-7 years... i assume its in a clean room so that should help on machines life too
Quote Originally Posted by saviour07 View Post
The idea of Linux as an Operating System is it's free. It's open source and it is built on and improved by individuals with the capabilities to do so.

By expecting people to PAY for something which can be aquired for free somewhere else would be a wrong move.

The only reason MS can monopolise on people paying for a copy of the Windows OS is because of it's own popularity as almost everything in software is Windows compatible, and very few of the same applications available on Windows is available to Linux users (which is slowly coming undone, as more people are catering to the needs of Linux users)

Couldn't agree with you more Linux is primarily a free (though i have found some that want you to pay like 19.99 for a nice distro, server distros can be very expensive) opensource sandbox for developers and Microshaft has a monopolly on the market because they were/are generaly user friendly and easy to program for...
Quote Originally Posted by saviour07 View Post
So if Sony where to release an OS for the PS3 GameOS (which i doubt is possible, but correct me if i'm wrong!) then they would have to make sure it was as compatable with everything as Windows is and as functional as a basic users needs.

Ummm if it was compatible with windows then they would have to pay Microsoft for rights to use there OS on there console... i just dont think that would ever happen... there could do linux this way but i fear that that would open up a programing hole to hack the ps3 very fast since your running in gameos and thus running signed code it could probably easily be lead to dumping the hole gameos encryption codes and all...

#29 - saviour07 - 241w ago
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Quote Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
Also, given that consoles generally have a limited life-span - the Airforce had to know this going in.

The PS3 has been said to have a life span of 10 years (granted that is for the "Playstation 3" brand and not the individual console itself).

Tbh though I've had my PS2 for almost 10 years and so with good care (and a bit of luck) the USAF can be looking at about 5-7 years in terms of a life expiration on the PS3's they currently use.

Which surely would have been in some kind of budget report when comparing 5 years use of PS3's to an investment in a unique supercomputer within the same period of time.

Obviously the PS3's are more cost effective, otherwise the air force wouldn't have chosen them.

Quote Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
I think the best thing for Sony to do (for itself -- maybe not the customer) is to release a version of OtherOS that runs in the same environment as the games - put it on BlueRay - and generate a revenue stream from it. Then whoever wants OtherOS would have to pay. As new builds of the OS come out, you'd have to decide if it was worth it to pay again for the new version.

The idea of Linux as an Operating System is it's free. It's open source and it is built on and improved by individuals with the capabilities to do so.

By expecting people to PAY for something which can be aquired for free somewhere else would be a wrong move.

The only reason MS can monopolise on people paying for a copy of the Windows OS is because of it's own popularity as almost everything in software is Windows compatible, and very few of the same applications available on Windows is available to Linux users (which is slowly coming undone, as more people are catering to the needs of Linux users)

So if Sony where to release an OS for the PS3 GameOS (which i doubt is possible, but correct me if i'm wrong!) then they would have to make sure it was as compatable with everything as Windows is and as functional as a basic users needs.

#28 - soultrane - 241w ago
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Back to the Airforce:

Given Sony no longer produces OtherOS capable hardware (firmware restricted from 1st run of Slims), I believe the Airforce has had a maintenance issue for some time. If a node fails, they can't just run to Wal-Mart and get a replacement anymore. Although they may have a cache of 100s of backup, unboxed, Fat PS3s in the store-room -- eventually that supply runs out.

Also, given that consoles generally have a limited life-span - the Airforce had to know this going in. I tend to agree that they would be fine sticking with what they have without any need to upgrade. The only reason for an "upgrade" story would be to downgrade old Fat PS3s they buy off of Ebay/Craigslist. And for some reason I can't see the USAF on Craigslist or Ebay.

Although I'm happy to see the publicity, I speculate that the USAF connection will not bring OtherOS back.

Now deviating from USAF and going into useless speculation:

I think the best thing for Sony to do (for itself -- maybe not the customer) is to release a version of OtherOS that runs in the same environment as the games - put it on BlueRay - and generate a revenue stream from it. Then whoever wants OtherOS would have to pay. As new builds of the OS come out, you'd have to decide if it was worth it to pay again for the new version.

 

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