possible routing bd-drive signals through a pc ?

[semitope]

I thought you were being sarcastic. I dont think listening to unencrypted data will help if we cant get past the process that leads to it becoming as such.

I had hoped someone would post information on how the bluray drive works and verifies discs but what i am thinking is to simply emulate that. Even if the data on a bluray disc is encrypted we would not need to decrypt or modify that information if the medium it is on is considered a legit bluray disc by the ps3.

"backups"... not pirated games and anything is a start.

[travis134]

Hahah well no, I wasn't being sarcastic

Anyways, I'm not complaining about the ability to run pirated games on the PS3; I can do that on my 360, and it pretty nice, however I'd much rather have this little baby opened up for the homebrew scene :P

Correct my if I'm wrong (I probably am) But isn't the decryption and encryption of data on the PS3 performed mainly by the cell processor itself?

[semitope]

Yeah. I wish cjpc or someone would comment on that but that should be the case. If it decrypts the data it gets from the bluray drive (files on the disc) but the information going to it and the indicated source could be used to fool it into running data coming from something other than a proper ps3 bluray.

It might be that everything coming from the bluray drive is encrypted (even the part that verifies the disc is legit and in fact being read by a bluray drive) so that the verification cannot be faked. Depending on how many times the ps3 needs to verify the disc (whether on boot of the game or throughout) it might be easy.

Its like having a dvd drive modified to read burnt pc games as legit all the time or a HDD that can be mounted and emulates a legit disc for games that use disc check. Seems similar to the 360 mod

Its just an idea tho, need some knowledgeable people to say how complicated and impossible it is.

Yeah homebrew on the ps3 would be great .I worry about the safety of the system running some of the apps but i would like to see a ps3 with custom widgets; would be too good and the ps3 would instantly become a must have console

Last edited by semitope; 07-04-2009 at 07:01 PM.

[CJPC]

Originally Posted by semitope Yeah. I wish cjpc or someone would comment on that but that should be the case. If it decrypts the data it gets from the bluray drive (files on the disc) but the information going to it and the indicated source could be used to fool it into running data coming from something other than a proper ps3 bluray.

Well, I can't give exact answers, but I can give a good educated guess.

In hardware decryption (on the BD drive) of the disk layer of encryption is possible, however one would need access restrictions so linux could not access that mode, and whatnot.

However, considering when the PS3 came out, and the fact that the drive was always one of the weak points, it is possible that they learned from others (namely, everyone in the business), and did encrypt the bus (makes more sense).

So, lets assume the data over the bus is not encrypted. If it isn't , it would be much easier to dump drive queries/responses, and go that route. However, since everything else is locked down - I highly doubt it would be that easy.

So, assuming the data is encrypted, with of course, a random session key of sorts, so we can not reuse any of the query/response data.

Since (somehow) the SELF decryption itself is tied onto the media used, I would bet that the encrypted, per session (ie, lots of security) "method" is used.

That basically leaves us where we are now, which says a lot for the devs @ Sony - they did a fine job.

But, assuming this was all completed - the best we would get are backups, which sure, are great, but they are far from a hack of any sorts!

[travis134]

Well judging from this post: http://www.ps3news.com/PS3Dev/Resist...ed_Encryption/

I would say that hijacking the BD-R drive's data bus might prove to be impotent. If I have read this article correctly, not only are all of the executable files encrypted, but the entire disc is as well.

I am unfamiliar with exactly how strong of an encryption algorythm is run on these executables and discs; but my guess is that it is probably an encryption that is not available for public use (Some Sony created algorythm), and if this is so, the process would be quite difficult: we would need to know the encryption algorythm, along with the publicly and privately generated keys; we would need to have an active packet sniffer on the BD-R data bus; we would need to decrypt the disc, and decrypt the executables; then we would need to encrypt our own executable, and inject it back into the BD-R stream without breaking the disc's encryption. I don't know if this is possible >.<

[RPS]

Originally Posted by CJPC Well, I can't give exact answers, but I can give a good educated guess. In hardware decryption (on the BD drive) of the disk layer of encryption is possible, however one would need access restrictions so linux could not access that mode, and whatnot. However, considering when the PS3 came out, and the fact that the drive was always one of the weak points, it is possible that they learned from others (namely, everyone in the business), and did encrypt the bus (makes more sense). So, lets assume the data over the bus is not encrypted. If it isn't , it would be much easier to dump drive queries/responses, and go that route. However, since everything else is locked down - I highly doubt it would be that easy. So, assuming the data is encrypted, with of course, a random session key of sorts, so we can not reuse any of the query/response data. Since (somehow) the SELF decryption itself is tied onto the media used, I would bet that the encrypted, per session (ie, lots of security) "method" is used. That basically leaves us where we are now, which says a lot for the devs @ Sony - they did a fine job. But, assuming this was all completed - the best we would get are backups, which sure, are great, but they are far from a hack of any sorts!

BD data bus is not encrypted.

RPS.

Last edited by RPS; 07-05-2009 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[PS3 News]

Originally Posted by RPS BD data bus is not encrypted.

Welcome back RPS.. I added you to the PS3 Dev class and nuked your old account.

I know a few of the others on IRC would like to say HI to you soon too.. CJPC and iCEQB among them.

[marvin24]

no need for hardware hacks. I thinks it's possible to access the bd-drive via iscsi-target under linux from a pc. with this, you can access the drive communication, but the data is still encrypted...

[RPS]

Originally Posted by marvin24 no need for hardware hacks. I thinks it's possible to access the bd-drive via iscsi-target under linux from a pc. with this, you can access the drive communication, but the data is still encrypted...

Don't make comments if you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

The HV does not allow full access to the BD subsystem under OtherOS; furthermore what good is anything under OtherOS, as all the real magic occurs in GameOS.

RPS.

[marvin24]

Originally Posted by RPS Don't make comments if you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. The HV does not allow full access to the BD subsystem under OtherOS; furthermore what good is anything under OtherOS, as all the real magic occurs in GameOS. RPS.

I just said, that it is possible to acces a blue-ray via an iscsi connected ps3 bd drive. that's at leased what I did one year ago. haven't checked a bd-movie, but I heard, that this is also working. decryption is of course made by the player software in the pc.