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  1. #1
    Forum Moderator PS3 News's Avatar
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    PlayStation 4 / PS4 Developers Rumored to Access 7GB GDDR5 RAM

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    While it is currently rumored that Sony will unveil PlayStation 4 later this month of in early May, today PS4Daily (linked above) reports that while the PS4 will ship with 8GB of GDDR5 memory, developers will only have access to 7GB of RAM.

    Below are the details, to quote: "The PlayStation 4 will ship with a massive 8 GB of GDDR5 memory, which is a huge upgrade compared to the current generation consoles. However, according to a PlayStation 4 developer PS4Daily spoke to, they have access to “only” 7 GB of RAM. The remaining 1 GB is reserved for the operating system and background tasks.

    Sony showcased a lot of PlayStation 4 features during the unveiling in February. This includes deep social features running in the background, new sharing options where players can watch each other play, and background downloading of games. All this chews up quite a bit of memory. Still, having access to 7 GB of super-fast GDDR5 memory is a lot better than the 512 MB in the PS3.

    Sony originally shipped dev kits to third party developers with only 4 GB RAM, and kept the true RAM amount secret from third party developers in order to keep it secret from Microsoft as well. Developers learned about the 8 GB of memory when the rest of the world did - during the February unveiling.

    In addition to 8 GB of RAM, the PlayStation 4 sports an 8 core CPU and a GPU with 18 compute units, both part of the same APU package made by AMD. Sony worked close with developers to give them a console that’s tailored for games. Sony interviewed major game engine makers such as Epic (Unreal Engine 4), CryTek (CryEngine 3), and Id Software (Id Tech 5), asking them what they wanted out of next generation consoles. Overall, Sony worked closely with developers to create a console that made it easy to create games."

    Update #2: Sony has now issued a statement (via eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory) about the PS4's 5GB of RAM available, as follows to quote:

    "We would like to clear up a misunderstanding regarding our "direct" and "flexible" memory systems. The article states that "flexible" memory is borrowed from the OS, and must be returned when requested - that's not actually the case.

    The actual true distinction is that:
    • "Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
    • "Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

    We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.

    Based on this information, plus the new source coming forward to explain the properties of flexible memory, our take on this right now is that there is 4.5GB of conventional RAM available to developers, along with the OS-controlled flexible memory Sony describes, in addition to that.

    We understand that this is a 1GB virtual address space, split into two areas - 512MB of on-chip RAM is used (the physical area) and another 512MB is "paged", perhaps like a Windows swap file. But to be clear, of the 8GB of GDDR5 on PS4, our contention is that 5GB of it is available to developers.

    The good news is that the amount is static and not dictated by OS functions as we stated in our original post, making it a lot easier for developers to work with."

    Update: "A new source familiar with the matter has provided additional information to Digital Foundry that confirms only 4.5GB of the PS4's 8GB GDDR5 memory pool is guaranteed to game developers right now, while also clarifying how the PS4's "flexible memory" works in practice.

    In real terms, an additional 512MB of physical RAM may be available in addition to the 4.5GB mentioned in the SDK. Flexible memory consists of physical and virtual spaces, and the latter introduces paging issues which impact performance. In our original story we combined them together.

    For practical game applications, the correct figures for this story, as we understand it now, are a guaranteed 4.5GB for development and a further 512MB from the flexible pool. We have updated the headline accordingly.

    Original story: PlayStation 4 reserves 3.5GB of its 8GB GDDR5 memory for the operating system, leaving 4.5GB of space for game code, according to current PlayStation 4 documentation shown to Digital Foundry by a well-placed development source. However, further sources suggest that an additional 1GB of "flexible memory" may be reclaimed from the OS reservation, based on availability.

    Sony's internal docs say that 4.5GB is the baseline amount of guaranteed memory available for game-makers (note the memory usage of the Killzone: Shadow Fall demo) and most likely what the lion's share of launch titles will be using. However, other sources close to Sony indicate that developers can request up to an additional gigabyte of "flexible memory", and use it to boost elements of the game - but only if the background OS can spare it. We're told that incorporating this isn't trivial, and it may well be that to begin with only first-party developers target its usage.

    Current PlayStation 4 dev kits have a "Game Memory Budget Mode" in the debug settings featuring two options: normal and large. The normal mode setting confirms that 4.5GB of memory is usable for game applications. The large mode increases this considerably to 5.25GB, but the docs are clear that the extra RAM here is only available for application development, presumably in order to house debugging data. From what we understand, the extra gig of flexible memory appears to work in addition to these allowances.

    The news that the PS4's OS reservation is in the same ballpark as Xbox One's equivalent 3GB allocation is sure to surprise many, especially bearing in mind that previously leaked Sony docs have only spoken of a 512MB allocation for the system software - though this information hails from the era where the new PlayStation was slated to ship with only 4GB of memory.

    Guerrilla Games developed its own profiling tools for PS4 during the development of Killzone: Shadow Fall. The CPU performance analysis tool is pictured here, strongly suggesting that six of the eight AMD CPU cores are available to developers.

    There are many parallels with the Xbox One. Both consoles allocate two Jaguar CPU cores to the operating system, and what sounds like a disproportionately higher level of RAM than one might expect - especially in comparison to PC, where Windows operates perfectly well with less than a gig of memory at its disposal.

    However, in a world where even the Wii U reserves 50 per cent of its onboard RAM for the operating system, the big bump in PS4's OS allocation is perhaps not completely surprising. The console's leap from 4GB to 8GB has seemingly opened the door for Sony to be much more ambitious about what tasks the PlayStation 4 performs in the background and in parallel with gameplay.

    Microsoft has already showcased Xbox One's abilities in this regard, but our sources say that PlayStation 4 is also capable of similar feats, perhaps in a manner more closely resembling that of PS Vita - the game is paused, apps are switched over seamlessly and, once exited, gameplay continues without having to restart the code. The convenience and functionality is undeniable, but it comes at a cost to memory consumption.

    The universal systems of Tom Francis Profiling the developer of Gunpoint. The universal systems of Tom Francis

    As it stands, both next-gen consoles will launch with 8GB of unified memory, but with a significantly diminished amount actually available to games developers. However, a big area of difference between Sony and Microsoft's approaches to OS allocation could come in their future plans for the reserved RAM.

    A Microsoft insider tells us that the engineers behind the Xbox One specifically chose 3GB in order to allow the background platform to evolve over a ten-year life-cycle - it's very hard to add features if the pool of available RAM is reduced from its initial level. The reserved RAM allocation there is set in stone, and is unlikely to change.

    However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.

    In the here and now, the template is now set for the next-gen launch period, and the focus from both platform holders is that while games command the majority of system resources, supplementary services and apps are clearly very important indeed. Microsoft has already set out its stall in this regard - now it remains to be seen what additional features PlayStation 4 brings to the table above and beyond its core gaming functions."

    PlayStation 4 / PS4 Developers Rumored to Access 7GB GDDR5 RAM

    PlayStation 4 / PS4 Developers Rumored to Access 7GB GDDR5 RAM

    PlayStation 4 / PS4 Developers Rumored to Access 7GB GDDR5 RAM

    More PlayStation 4 News...

  2. #2
    Senior Member PS3GAMER20111's Avatar
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    instead of adding crappy social features sony should concentrate on graphics and performance of games.what is the use of 8GB ddr5 ram if it is not dedicated only to play games with ultra high graphics.man this not a machine to watch your friends playing games.it should be built solely for playing games or movies.we all have cellphones and pcs for social networking.

  3. #3
    Senior Member NTA's Avatar
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    Was it ever possible to switch the ram in the ps3? I'd think not because I haven't ever heard anything about it. Never really thought about it until now though

  4. #4
    Senior Member Transient's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that a lot of the requested features for PS3 (eg. cross-game chat) weren't included due to a lack of memory. Sony can't simply allocate more memory for persistent features without causing problems with some older games (designed with more memory present) as well as putting additional constraints on new games (which are already feeling the pinch).

    Reserving 1GB now for future expansion is a good idea and if it ends up being wasted, they can always release some of it in a future firmware update. Current games live within the 256MB + 256MB confines of the PS3 (minus memory reserved for OS!) and we still see some pretty impressive results. Providing a dedicated 7GB of memory for games is a massive jump and more than sufficient for the foreseeable future.

  5. #5
    Member imranulferdoues's Avatar
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    Well, good ideas you have there... PS3 uses high speed XDR RAM which isn't available for general use. I am sure you never heard of XDR RAM before too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Transient View Post
    Keep in mind that a lot of the requested features for PS3 (eg. cross-game chat) weren't included due to a lack of memory. Sony can't simply allocate more memory for persistent features without causing problems with some older games (designed with more memory present) as well as putting additional constraints on new games (which are already feeling the pinch).

    Reserving 1GB now for future expansion is a good idea and if it ends up being wasted, they can always release some of it in a future firmware update. Current games live within the 256MB + 256MB confines of the PS3 (minus memory reserved for OS!) and we still see some pretty impressive results. Providing a dedicated 7GB of memory for games is a massive jump and more than sufficient for the foreseeable future.
    Agreed... 7GB is just much more than enough. I just can't imagine how might next Uncharted look if its utilizes all 7GB RAM & juice of GPU+APU. Still I am amazed by the beauty of Uncharted 3 that done just only in 256MB XDR + Cell processor.
    Last edited by imranulferdoues; 04-12-2013 at 04:22 PM Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. #6
    Senior Member Brian10122's Avatar
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    Oh, screw that. Graphics on PS3 are already jawdropping, let alone on PCs with only 1GB of GDDR5. The PS4 would be fine with 2GB of GDDR5 -_-. I wouldn't buy the console if it didn't have such amazingly innovative social features. If you're that much of a graphics whore go spend $4000 on a PC with Tri-SLI GTX Titans and an i7 3970X. No? Didn't think so.

    Even then, the best you can play right now is maybe Tomb Raider or Crysis 3, which can run full speed (60fps, 1080p) with max graphics on only a Radeon HD 6970 or GTX 580 (2GB GDDR5). This bugs the heck out of me when people talk like this about things they don't even know about. Stop touting words out and just don't bother if you don't even know what GDDR5 is.

  7. #7
    Member ils's Avatar
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    agreed... 8GB RAM dedicated for "ultra high graphics" will be useless if the GPU isn't powerful enough its like using middle range GPU with 8GB GDDR5.. you still limited by the GPU power

    with that much features in next OS, i won't be surprised if the OS alone take 2GB RAM or more. my take will be like : 4GB Game Data RAM + 2GB GPU RAM + 2GB OS RAM (6GB unified for gaming use and 2GB for OS)

  8. #8
    Senior Member kalberto's Avatar
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    wondering if NVIDIA delay their new GeForce 700 because of PS4 specs

  9. #9
    Member imranulferdoues's Avatar
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    Well nVidia already announced GTX 780 with only starting 649$ pricetag...

    still I don't think it will be in long term use such as consoles.

 
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