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  1. #1
    Forum Moderator PS3 News's Avatar
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    Sony Patent Uncovered That May Suppress Second-Hand Game Sales

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    Previously it was rumored that Sony was planning to combat PS3 piracy with Blu-ray disc serial keys, and today gofreak uncovered a [Register or Login to view links] ([Register or Login to view links]) which may suppress second-hand game sales on PS4 as well.

    Below are the details, to quote: So I believe this is interesting in light of a prior rumor about Sony limiting second hand game sales on PS4. Sony has been working on new technology for limiting used game sales, and has applied for a patent. The patent was filed 09/12/2012 by SCEJ.

    Perhaps this work is where the rumor came from. Or perhaps it independently corroborates the rumor. Anyway, here's some of the relevant detail:

    "According to the present embodiment, realized is the electronic content processing system that reliably restricts the use of electronic content dealt in the second-hand markets. As a result, the dealing of electronic content in the second-hand markets is suppressed, which in turn supports the redistribution of part of proceeds from sales of the electronic content to the developers. Though in the following description a game application (AP) is exemplified as the electronic content, the present embodiment is similarly applicable to various kinds of electronic content such as an office suite, images, and music content.

    By employing the game playing system 1000 according to the present embodiment, the use permission tag 220 together with the game disk 210 is supplied to the user, and the use permission tag 220 actively determines the use permit/rejection of electronic content. Thereby, the use of game AP stored in the game disk 210 can be restricted as appropriate according to the attribute of a reproduction device. Consider, for example, a case where used is a game package 200 distributed in the second-hand market.

    Then the ID of reproduction device for the game disk 210 differs from the legitimate use device ID stored in the use permission tag 220, so that the game disk can be reproduced in a mode which is predetermined for those bought and sold in the second-hand market. Also, for example, a content key may be supplied to the reproduction device 130 and the encrypted game AP may be decrypted using the content key only if the reproduction device ID matches a legitimate use device ID. Hence, use of game APs bought and sold in the second-hand market can be eliminated."

    It works by supplying a contactless RF tag with each copy of a game (NFC?), which can (independent of a network connection), remember if a game has been tied to a different machine or user account previously. The system checks with the tag before playing the game.

    I suppose I should say that this doesn't mean PS4 will, for sure, restrict second hand games. This would not be the first time Sony registered patents in this area and then did nothing with the tech. In fact I remember a patent fueling rumors prior to PS3's launch. The decision would be a business one, not one based on technical feasibility. This system would be relatively expensive to implement vs network-DRM. Although it could have the double effect of limiting piracy - at least until pirates could hack or reproduce the 'rf tag' system.




    The last official comment we had from someone at Sony was Jack Tretton's "'for the record, I'm totally opposed to blocking used games." - but maybe people would be better reassured by a comment from SCEJ...

    So with those qualifications out of the way, have at it Since it's causing some confusion, the application refers to a system that can tie a game to your user ID (i.e. your account), or a machine ID via the RF tag. For people wondering what would happen if your console died etc.

    Sony Patent Uncovered That May Suppress Second-Hand Game Sales

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  2. #2
    Senior Member mm4dsc's Avatar
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    Go ahead Sony. Give the middle finger to a large number of people that like your PS devices but cannot afford to spend $50+ for a new game every month. With devices like Ouya on the horizon that not only reduce the cause of the device itself, it is cheaper (no expensive SDK) to develop for. Most games will be cheaper as well. So, give them the middle finger, you'll be cutting your own throat with the other hand.

  3. #3
    Senior Member StanSmith's Avatar
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    EVERYONE should boycott the PS4 for everything Sony did to the PS3. They started the fight by removing PS2 compatibility at the very start then they kicked us in the balls by removing Other OS. Then when OtherOS was returned by the hackers Sony started sueing everyone.

    How about we boycott the PS4 and see how they like it. We don't like being treated like dirt and lied to "we will never remove OtherOS from the PS3" and that quote was 2 months before they removed it.

    FU Sony. That's going to be the main response from EVERYONE if you ban the sales of 2nd hand games. The second I hand over the cash it's no longer your, it's now MINE so if I want to sell it I can. I can do whatever I want with it as soon as cash has changed hands. If I want to play that game I can, if I want to jump on it I can so why can't I sell it? What about people with more than one console in the house? Will that game work in both consoles?

    These big companies are all doing it wrong. They need some smart people controlling things instead of the morons they have now.

    Quote Originally Posted by PS3 News View Post
    This system would be relatively expensive to implement vs network-DRM. Although it could have the double effect of limiting piracy - at least until pirates could hack or reproduce the 'rf tag' system.
    Hasn't these companies worked out yet that online DRM DOESN'T WORK. It annoys the consumer and they have no choice but to turn to piracy. Many PC games are pirated or patched just so the game is playable. Not everyone has a Internet connected PC and not every Internet connection is stable. Some DRM servers are taken down so if you have one of those games it's now impossible to play it.

    Hackers won't find a way to reproduce the rf tag system, they will find a way to remove or avoid it instead. The more security they put in games the more piracy is better for the consumer.
    Last edited by StanSmith; 01-03-2013 at 10:44 PM Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  4. #4
    Senior Member seeman's Avatar
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    thats true ... they always make things worse instead of better.... they removed ps2 support... other os.... and remote play NEVER realy worked... its useless! even for the vita!

    i really don't buy much games LOL... but if i buy a game i will sell it after i'm done... LOL so if i'm not able to sell it anymore ... i would never buy a game for sure !!!

    i don't know if its because of getting older... but most new games really SUCK! all good games like RESIDENT EVIL and Silent Hill... even final fantasy.... are crap NOW! the last couple resident evil was a JOKE!

    if the want to do this... the need to make it worth first!! or they have to go down with the price a lot!!!
    Last edited by seeman; 01-03-2013 at 11:31 PM

  5. #5
    Senior Member elser1's Avatar
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    why can't they. if they have to do something,just put online code for every game and sell codes for second hand buyer at a reasonable price like $5.. or better yet just be happy with the sales they do get and let others play for free. i dont think pirate buy games anyways.

    its all bs and i know they have the right to defend there property but who really cares, apart from the pirates and sony. i guess as being a big buyer of games, stan smith is right!

    it does annoy me with going through all the bs when you get a game and typing codes in etc.im just about over sony and the ps.i think ill get a gaming pc or xbox next generation anyways and thats sad as i haven't even played an xbox for 1 second in my life.. LOL

    maybe i should grow up,get a real life and stop playing games.. hehe

  6. #6
    Senior Member kalberto's Avatar
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    I'm sure, Sony is planning to release PS3 Slim version 2 & PS3 SuperSlim version 2, with a NEW FIRMWARE because there was a word of "REPRODUCTION DEVICE". And CHANGE the way, of player ID and Disc ID with permission term of use method.

    it might be the console has to connect and register once to server Sony, to unlock the feature of the new console and game disc ID term of use.

  7. #7
    Member BerserkLeon's Avatar
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    Soooo.. NFC/RFID? I'm pretty sure you can order custom-made tags... and at least a few phones have NFC devices built into them.. read the tag with the phone and order a read-only tag with that information burnt into it?

    I'm not sure if that's how it all works but I do know I've got an NFC reader/writer in my phone. unless they heavily modify the tech I don't see it being a useful deterrent.

    They should fire/close whatever department has the job of "coming up with ideas to screw over consumers" and just deal with current security.. and use the money they were paying that department with to fund other developments of the new console.. like using high-quality solder and thermal paste instead of the cheap crap in the ps3.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tilla's Avatar
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    Wouldn't really believe this is actually implemented until Sony actually puts it in the system, settle down people - patents that never get used are filed every day.

  9. #9
    Senior Member GrandpaHomer's Avatar
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    Sony is diging they own grave if they'll ever implement this not realizing that MANY new games sales are financed by people re-seling their recently purchased and completed games. Thake this option away and - no more sales of new games for you Sony. Really BAD business decission if you ask me ...

    Also - this could be implemented not only on games but also on music / vide / BDs - Sony own loads of right for all kind of media.

  10. #10
    Senior Member StanSmith's Avatar
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    Come to think about it, on just about every device isn't the piracy rate about 10%? On the iphone it was about 15% at its peak, now its about 5% or less, closer to 1% now and same with PS3 piracy, I think its really low like 5-10% so what are they really complaining about? All this protection for 5% of users? So they are going to punish 95%?

    Told you they are morons. They should try to keep the 95% of users happy and make them want to buy their console and games.

 

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