Submitter: PS3 News - (http://www.gamesindustry.biz)
Site Tags: sony issues letter bbc watchdog ps3 ylod ylod failure report
Category: PlayStation 3
Update: The BBC has aired the show (videos below), during which it admitted that a number of the consoles it repaired for consumers have once again broken.

Tonight, the BBC Watchdog program will feature the PS3 and claim that Sony refuses to fix systems which suffer from the Yellow Light of Death (YLOD).

In response, Sony has issued a lengthy letter right back to the BBC as follows:

11th September 2009

Dear XXXX

BBC Watchdog – 17 September 2009







Further to your recent correspondence with our PR agency and parent company, I am writing to respond to your queries in connection with the edition of Watchdog that is scheduled for broadcast on Thursday 17 September 2009.

I should state at the outset that we are, of course, disappointed if a small number of our consumers appear to have experienced problems with their PlayStation 3 units outside the manufacturer’s warranty period and we take our customer care obligations very seriously.

It is for this reason that SCEUK operates a service of out of warranty repair or replacement (replacement with a refurbished unit within 48 hours at the consumer’s convenience by courier). To be clear, this service is subsidised by SCEUK, there is no profit made by SCEUK on this service.

You have informed us that this broadcast will include a report concerning faults alleged to affect PlayStation®3 consoles, and SCEUK’s policy on out-of-warranty (OOW) repairs. Most importantly, we entirely refute the suggestion that PS3 consoles have an inherent defect or other design issue which is akin to any warranty issue experienced by another console manufacturer.

SCEUK has sold 2.5 million consoles in the UK since March 2007 and stands by the quality of its products. Clearly the allegations you propose to air in your program might have the potential to adversely effect Sony Computer Entertainment’s reputation for supplying high quality products and customer service and we take very seriously any issues that can impact the public’s or our customers’ confidence in those products.

From the correspondence to date, I have serious concerns as to the accuracy of these allegations and the likely tone of the Watchdog report. The information that you have provided suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the technical issues and a mis-characterisation of SCEUK’s OOW repairs policy.

It is in all parties’ interests that your reporting does not contain inaccurate or distorted information and the facts are presented in a manner which is not misleading or exaggerated. I trust the detailed information in this letter will enable the BBC to adopt a more balanced and sober approach to this issue than we have experienced to date.

1. You have indicated that a number of viewers had contacted you to complain about a fault affecting their PS3 systems, whereby “a yellow light appears and their console then stops working – anecdotally called the ‘yellow light of death’” (your email of 18 August 2009).

2. You clarified in your letter of 25 August 2009 that the majority of those viewers had experienced problems with the 60GB launch model of the PS3. In that letter, you went on to say that, after examining three PS3 systems that had “displayed symptoms” of this fault, the consultancy Electronics Yorkshire noted the presence of higher levels of voids in soldering than would have been expected, in the case of two of those units.

Your letter continued: “These voids can be problematic in some cases, but by no means in all cases. In some instances,… these voids can fracture at the inter-metallic interface… If this fracture was to occur on a vital connection, it would stop the console from working. [Electronics Yorkshire] is of the opinion that this problem [presumably: excessive voiding] has occurred during the manufacturing process and not as a result of consumer use or a thermal effect during use.”

3. Your letter went on to say that, in the opinion of three commercial repairers of PS3 systems, the supposed “‘yellow light of death’ fault is caused by a soldering issue”.

4. With respect, neither your letter of 25 August nor any other information you have provided (including the Electronics Yorkshire report) establishes that there is such a thing as a “‘yellow light of death’ fault”. In this regard:

The phrase “yellow light of death” has been adopted by certain members of the online community to describe the situation in which PS3 systems have shut down following the illumination of the yellow light on the PS3’s front panel.

The yellow indicator is simply a non-specific fault indicator that can be triggered in a range of different circumstances. For example, it could indicate a problem caused or exacerbated by the console’s power supply, by overheating, by poor ventilation, by software issues or by any one of a range of issues that may inevitably affect any complex item of consumer electronics.

SCEUK has run searches of its customer complaints/warranty database to identify the number of reports made to it regarding instances of system shutdown or failure in circumstances where the front panel yellow indicator is illuminated. The results show that of all PS3s sold in the UK to date, fewer than one half of one per cent of units have been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is illuminated.

As Watchdog has a very high awareness amongst the UK audience, it isn't surprising that some people have contacted you with regard to this issue. However we think it is highly unfair to suggest that from an installed base of 2.5 million that the numbers you mention somehow are evidence of a 'manufacturing defect'.

The comparison with other console warranty issues is wholly inappropriate, in circumstances where – as here, and as discussed further below – there is no evidence of a manufacturing voiding defect affecting any PS3s; where the voiding identified by the expert contacted by the BBC is within the tolerance levels set out by the applicable IPC standard; and where that expert analysis considered a sample of only three units and reached no firm conclusions as to the existence of a defect that could be detrimental to device operation.

5. The technical evidence that you have provided to support the assertion that there is a manufacturing defect affecting PS3s comes from two sources. First, you rely on anecdotal reports made by the three repairers whom you have contacted. As discussed further below, evidence provided by organisations of this sort who have a commercial interest in the repair of electronic goods must be treated with caution.

Second, you have asked Electronics Yorkshire, a respected not-for-profit testing house, to carry out testing on a small number of reportedly failed units. We understand Electronics Yorkshire did not produce a written report and you have provided a summary of your understanding from an interview with the relevant person. As regards the Electronics Yorkshire analysis:

The testing concerned a sample of only three PS3s, which cannot, on any basis, be deemed to be representative of a UK user base of [c. 2.5 million]. One of these had in addition been materially altered by the owner.

The report identified “higher levels of voids than expected” in only two of these three units, which is itself sufficient to suggest that the technical hypothesis set out in your letter of 25 August 2009 (namely, that solder voids cause system failure) is incorrect. If this were the case, wouldn’t “higher levels of voids than expected” have been present in all three units?

[Report author] does not indicate the basis on which he considered that voiding at the levels seen – which, by his own admission, in no case exceeded 25 per cent sphere mass – were higher than he expected. In fact, assuming [Report author] is applying IPC standard A-610D (Acceptability of Electronic Assemblies, February 2005), that standard makes clear that “25% or less voiding in a ball x-ray image area” means that the product in question meets the relevant criterion for compliance. Although we have not been given the opportunity to confirm these results, Mr Burnley’s findings appear to show the voiding levels in the consoles he examined to be below industry-accepted levels.

Most importantly, nothing in the report supports the conclusion that voiding was the cause of the problems reported as affecting the units in question. Indeed, the report specifically noted that: “[Report author] could not say if these voids would be detrimental to the device operation, as this can not be determined by x-ray, but he said that they have the potential to be detrimental.” The other language that he chose to use (e.g. “These voids can be problematic in some cases, but by no means all cases”) is likewise extremely cautious.

6. The BBC simply has no technical basis for asserting that the supposed “yellow light” issue results from a defect in the manufacture of PS3s, in circumstances where the BBC’s own technical expert is unwilling or unable to say that voiding (which is, in any event, within recognised industry tolerance) is problematic per se, or that it would have affected device operation in the case of even this small sample of units. All the more so, given the low level of complaints or warranty claims received by SCEUK on this score. Nor does the technical data justify the negative and hostile tone of the planned broadcast.

7. Overall, the allegations outlined in the correspondence to date are simply not substantiated by the technical data collected in support. Given the commercial and reputational harm that unsupported allegations of this sort may do to Sony and the PS3 brand, I would hope that the BBC exercises appropriate caution before leaping to conclusions or creating a “scare” among PS3 users by broadcasting such allegations on national television.

8. Customers who purchase a PS3 benefit from a manufacturer’s one-year warranty, which is standard industry practice.

9. If a PS3 develops a fault during the warranty period, the customer can contact SCEUK, who will organise collection and supply of a refurbished unit (typically within 24-48 hours) by courier at the consumer’s convenience, free of charge. Under the terms of the warranty, customers are advised to make regular back-ups of the data they have stored on their PS3 and, in particular, to do so before submitting their console for warranty service.

10. Once the warranty period has elapsed, the customer will be charged £128 (inclusive of VAT). This figure reflects the cost of repairing a PS3 to the high standard required and includes a door-to-door courier exchange service and other general administrative costs. SCEUK does not profit from this service; in fact, it operates it at a loss in order to offer customers with OOW PS3s the best price possible.

11. Sony has invested substantially in creating state-of-the-art diagnostic and servicing facilities to support both in-warranty and OOW repairs. As regards the purported solution to the supposed “yellow light” issue adopted by commercial repairers, effecting a reflow correctly, to the required engineering standards and in a properly controlled static-safe environment requires the use of an infra-red BGA soldering station, which must be set up and programmed to run at very specific temperature profiles.

Each such station costs tens of thousands of pounds. The diagnostic equipment required to test that the solder has been performed correctly costs a similar amount.

12. Consequently, even if a yellow indicator/system shutdown were triggered by a soldering issue/voiding, it would be misleading for you to suggest to viewers that the basic solder reflow process you describe in your letter to XXXXX of 7 September 2009 is necessarily a reliable procedure when performed in that way, or that it can properly be done cheaply and quickly.

13. Various commercial organisations not authorised by SCEUK provide repairs to PS3s and other consumer electronic devices. For example, [Third-party repair company] – who, you informed us, participated in the “PlayStation Repair Action Team” activity which you recently staged in Great Marlborough Street (see below) – charge customers £103.50 (inclusive of VAT) to repair and return customers’ PS3s which (in the company’s words) are affected by the “yellow light of death”.

This figure is only £24.50 less than the cost to the customer of high-quality SCEUK repair, conducted using state-of-the-art equipment. In addition the consumer needs to arrange and bear the cost of getting the console to this organisation.

14. Importantly, it is clear that third party repairers will profit from any public concern that is raised about the reliability of the PS3 (as indicated by the use of language on their websites), and have an interest in criticising SCEUK’s after sales service (despite the relatively small price differential in their own service offering). The BBC will therefore doubtless wish to exercise caution before relying on anecdotal evidence, provided by them, concerning the extent or cause of these issues. The “PlayStation Repair Action Team” stunt

15. On 1 September 2009, BBC Watchdog filmed technicians from [Third-party repair company] carrying out repairs to PS3 units affected by the supposed “yellow light” issue. It was emphasised that this service was carried out free of charge, and that SCEUK does not carry out OOW servicing free of charge.

For example, as is evident from stills available on the internet, the van in which the technicians worked was clearly labelled: “PlayStation Repair Action Team – SONY charge a fee – let Watchdog repair it for free” (emphasis as original).

16. I would ask you to think very seriously before including this segment in any report that is broadcast:

The premise behind this stunt (i.e., that SCEUK charge a repair fee whereas commercial repairers do not) is demonstrably false. As noted, the commercial repairers who occupied that van, and others like them, do not provide free servicing as a matter of routine.

Indeed, their business model involves providing unauthorised servicing at only a minimal discount to the approved servicing provided by SCEUK. The BBC should not allow its agenda to be influenced by third party commercial interests who stand to benefit from revenue generated by repair fees.

It is standard practice for businesses in the electronics and many other consumer products sectors to provide free servicing/repairs only during the warranty period, but to charge for OOW repairs. It is therefore unfair to criticise SCEUK in this way.

The slogan on the van is in any event misleading, in that SCEUK does not charge any fee for in-warranty repairs/replacement.

Further as regards that slogan, if BBC Watchdog is indeed providing PS3 servicing at its own cost, then this is a questionable use of the licence fee, and one which may breach the BBC’s Charter.

If, on the other hand, the eSales, Inc. technicians involved in this stunt were, on this occasion, providing their services gratis, then we trust that this segment of the programme, if broadcast, will provide full details to viewers of [Third-party repair company's] usual terms, conditions and pricing, so as to permit viewers fairly to assess to whom they should turn in the event that they require an OOW repair for their PS3.

Finally, this stunt as a whole (and, in particular, the use of the acronym “PRAT”) treats with inappropriate levity an issue which may do serious damage to SCEUK and the Sony and PS3 brands. BBC’s duty

17. As a publicly-funded broadcaster, the BBC is under a duty to licence-payers to preserve its impartial editorial stance. It also has a duty of fairness towards SCEUK. Should the BBC decide to include an item on the PS3 in the 17 September edition of Watchdog, it will therefore wish to make sure that the issues you have raised in correspondence receive as accurate, fair and balanced a treatment as possible.

18. I regret to say that neither the correspondence to date, nor the “PlayStation Repair Action Team” stunt, have given me much confidence that you are treating this issue fairly. If the report is broadcast in what appears to be its current form, SCEUK will scrutinise its accuracy and will take all necessary steps to protect its reputation and that of the PS3.

Unsupported and potentially misleading allegations of the sort that the BBC appears, from the correspondence to date, to be planning to make concerning the reliability of the PS3 could do significant commercial and reputational harm to Sony and its brands. This is particularly so, given the recent, highly successful launch of the new, slimmer model PS3 and the fact that the last quarter of the year is the busiest sales period for the consumer electronics industry.

Yours sincerely,

Ray Maguire,

Senior Vice President and Managing Director UK


Sony Issues Letter to BBC's Watchdog on PS3 Failure Report

Posted 64 days ago      18 Comments      PermaLink


Comments

#1
By Transient on 9 weeks ago:
Wow, Sony rips them a new arse... I like it! :p

I have to agree with most of what Sony had to say. One of the main reasons I buy Sony products is because they are reliable. Trying to draw a comparison between the PS3 and 360 (or at least insinuating one) really makes me wonder if some MS dollars were behind it...

Out of all my friends with PS3s (and I have quite a few) I've only known one to get the YLOD. Rather than send it in to Sony, he tried to repair it himself. :wacky:

His problem turned out to be that it was packed full of cat hair. Apparently kitty liked to get in on the overnight Folding@Home action...

Unfortunately for him, he ended up destroying it (the PS3, not the cat) when he used a little too much force while putting it back together. :crazy:

#2
By JesusFMA on 9 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient View Post
.... Unfortunately for him, he ended up destroying it (the PS3, not the cat) ...
LOL

But I think Sony has a real strong position. I really don't understand why is this such a big problem, electronics fail all the time, and most of all, they're going to fail depending on the way you treat them. For instance, my PS3 is clean as hell and I alway try to keep it that way .... but I've seen some of my friends' PS3's and they're all dusty and dirty (The PS3's, not my friends :p) and I know that theirs are going to fail .... eventually.

I know that Sony always does extremely durable products, 'cause I still have a very old TV, I think we bough it in 1993 and still working ... well kinda :D. Therefore, if you want your things to last forever, RTFM, and stop crying for some silly thing you 'caused (if so, 'cause some other times it's just bad luck)

#3
By D3M0N2009 on 9 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient View Post
Wow, Sony rips them a new arse... I like it! :p

I have to agree with most of what Sony had to say. One of the main reasons I buy Sony products is because they are reliable. Trying to draw a comparison between the PS3 and 360 (or at least insinuating one) really makes me wonder if some MS dollars were behind it...
Well considering that Microsoft pretty much jumped ship on the last Xbox, I wouldn't have been suprised if they did it to the current one, but looks like they won't due to the money its making for them. The problem it seems with the current generation is the production of too much heat. It is a fact that the PS3 is much more reliable than the Xbox 360, and there is no denying of that fact, I will give credit to MS for coming up with new cooling solutions but they really should have done something about the poor solder job on the mainboard.

#4
By semitope on 9 weeks ago:
Why isnt this about the 360 though? Would have made a lot more sense and been a more believable program if it was. Not to mention I really want someone to investigate that pos console and call MS out on it. The way it is now it just looks like MS paid the bbc to mess with sony.

Gonna complain about the ps3 locking harddrives again. :p Thats just looking really dumb over and over. It dies you lose your info...

should at least be able to put my harddrive in another ps3 and have that ps3 do something with it.

#5
By Paxo on 9 weeks ago:
Thats all well and good but when you had a 60GB PS3 that was only used at weekends suddenly get YLOD just after the warranty ended then Sony Stings you 128.00 I think is terrible. Also with that you only get an extra 3 months warranty on the refurbed unit they send back to you and that fails again after 4 months....

I know own a lower spec 80gb machine with no backwards compatability and less usb ports.

PS I am not bitter :)

#6
By kakarotoks on 9 weeks ago:
this is bs! I mean, I may be a bit of a PS3 fanboy, so I'm not even sure myself if my opinion is biased but I believe they did something very wrong with that episode and I fully agree with what the Sony guy had to say in his (immensly huge) letter!

First of all, the "Yellow Light of Death" is clearly a reference to "Red Ring of Death" from the XBox 360.. just by using such a term, they are making it look like the PS3 failure rate is in par with the Xbox 360's..

Also, everybody knows (or should know) that ANY piece of hardware cannot be 100% defect free.. every manufacture will get some faulty parts, and there is probably around 1% of faulty batches being produced everytime, and that's noone's fault, because it just cannot be prevented... but that's why there is a warranty.. and it's simply that if your machine doesn't break in the first month or two, then it is bound to be working 'forever'.. the warranty is one year, so you should be wayyyy assured that if it lasted one year, then it doesn't have a manufacturing defect...

If it breaks after one year, then consider it bad luck and consider that 100 pound fee as a fee for getting to use a PS3 for a full year...

The 3 month warranty for refurbished is normal, and it's simply because that refurbished PS3 has been tested by itself to make sure it has no defect (as opposed to any PS3 fresh from the factory where it didn't get tested because they have thousands being made every day). so 3 months is already more than enough to insure that if it breaks, it's not sony's fault..

Also, I've realized that a lot of people put their consoles in some cluttered space where the heat has no way to dissipate, which causes the machine to overheat.. is it just me being a genius or are all those people too stupid to understand that heat needs to be dissipated and that the console should be put in a place where air can flow freely, otherwise you are asking for trouble ?

And just to make sure that they were being biased and against the PS3, simply look at who is that guy who was managing that repair shop, he's a microsoft employee, and here is what he had to say previously on the PS3 in old articles (taken from a comment on the joystiq.com thread about this issue, info not verified):
Quote:
"You have to feel sorry for everyone that plumped for the PS3 over the 360. Not the Sony diehards that would buy a polished poo if it had the Sony logo on. No, I’m talking about those poor souls who were stood in Comets humming and hawing over which console to buy and plumped for the shiny black plastic thing that had a familiar name."

"And what the sodding hell is Blu-ray all about? That’s not even how you spell blue. It should have an ‘e’ at the end, B-L-U-E! Not Blu. Pathetic. Yes, it may have beaten HD DVD, a format I didn’t even know existed until the announcement that it was being withdrawn, but are people really going to dump their old DVD players to watch something that is a) only slightly better quality and b) more expensive?"

"The exact same thing is happening with the PS3, but this time it hasn’t worked anywhere near as well as Sony had expected. Firstly, the 360 came out and is as close to perfect as you can get. Don’t get me wrong, I may be in the employ of Microsoft to write this column, but there is no way I’m taking dirty money."
I believe that after today, Sony will sue the BBC because it tarnished its reputation and it will supposedly make Sony loose money because people will stop buying the PS3 because of them (as it was hinted by that Sony letter towards the end).. I'd like to see where this is going!

Thanks for sharing,
KaKaRoTo

#7
By stevenz on 9 weeks ago:
Failure rate is less than 1%, this is better than the average for most consumer electronics so the BBC really needs to do better research.

#8
By Rooka5 on 9 weeks ago:
I have a 80 GB EU model (no PS2 backwards compatibility), i think it's the 65nm model. Can my ps3 suffer ylod?? i use it about 1,5 hours a day, or less, and i really love my ps3, but i don't want it to be broken.I bought it about 9 months ago....

#9
By GrandpaHomer on 9 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenz View Post
Failure rate is less than 1%, this is better than the average for most consumer electronics so the BBC really needs to do better research.
Well yes - and - NO! As Sony used very clever "trick" to quote TOTAL amount of PS3 sold rather that former 60 GB models so if you'd have figures for those models only it could be easier 3 to 5 times higher failure rate just for those ;)

#10
By GameWinner on 9 weeks ago:
i don't think i'll get it because i treat my ps3 like my own flesh and blood, when dust gets on it i hurry and wipe it off and when my brother wants to play i tell him to wash and dry his hands first.

#11
By JeffJ on 9 weeks ago:
my cat sleeps on mine while it does folding, she likes the heat.. and its still kicking. its a launch unit. with a protective shell on it.

#12
By semitope on 9 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameWinner View Post
i dont think ill get it because i treat my ps3 like my own flesh and blood,when dust gets on it i hurry and wipe it off and when my brother wants to play i tell him to wash and dry his hands first
lol. damn I think you are a bit TOO loving of the ps3 :p

#13
By AKmania on 9 weeks ago:
BY comparing the PS2 and Ps3 motherboard i think ps2 motherboard was stronger than ps3 (60GB type) you can see it by heating the board on 450 degree, the board just like gonna explode. maybe thats why so many 60gb model get overheat

#14
By Paxo on 9 weeks ago:
My PS3 was in perfect condition (whole area kept clean by wife with OCD), in a well ventilated area and only used on Friday and Saturday nights but that did not stop my PS3 and the refurbished PS3 from suffering the YLOD.

The YLOD issue is more likely to occur on the 60GB BC model than any other and I have had two of these fail outside of Warranty (only just on both occasions).

Want backwards compatibility but not willing to risk another YLOD now owning 80gb PS3.

Got old slim PS2 in the drawer for God of War :)

#15
By JeffJ on 9 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKmania View Post
BY comparing the PS2 and Ps3 motherboard i think ps2 motherboard was stronger than ps3 (60GB type) you can see it by heating the board on 450 degree, the board just like gonna explode. maybe thats why so many 60gb model get overheat
heating any PCB to 450 degrees will warp it thats way beyond its heat curve for flowing. most lead free ROHS compliant solder melts at 265 degrees Celsius, and is only held at that temperature for a matter of 14-25 seconds

i can watch a Xbox 360 BCB warp at only 250 degrees

this is exactly why the cool down curve is 100% mandatory and that it does not cool more then 2-3 degrees a second or the broad will now regain its shape and you will just crack the balls on the bga chips again.

as for a board exploding, that wont happen, never saw it happen. and there isn't any volatile compounds in the board that would cause this. caps might leak but thats it.

also there is no way that a PS3 is reaching 450 degrees with out melting its whole chassis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxo View Post
My PS3 was in perfect condition (whole area kept clean by wife with OCD), in a well ventilated area and only used on Friday and Saturday nights but that did not stop my PS3 and the refurbished PS3 from suffering the YLOD.

The YLOD issue is more likely to occur on the 60GB BC model than any other and I have had two of these fail outside of Warranty (only just on both occasions).

Want backwards compatibility but not willing to risk another YLOD now owning 80gb PS3.

Got old slim PS2 in the drawer for God of War :)
the issue with the 60GB is it has the ps2 emotion engine on top of the ps3 hardware. it gets hot. and extended play can lead to premature death.

basically if u use the shit out of it it will die, but thats like any electronics. if you leave it on to idle. it will just slowly cook its self to death.

#16
By ps3c on 9 weeks ago:
how can i fix 60g overheating problem?

#17
By JeffJ on 9 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps3c View Post
how can i fix 60g overheating problem?
keep it dust free, dont crowd its venting system, and don't do marathon gaming sessions, this means give it a break every hour or 2.

#18
By WdRg on 9 weeks ago:
I totally agree with sony.

This is how business works. Who knows "Croks" everlasting shoes ? They have sold 120mill + units world wide and now they are going out of business. Why ? Because nobody is buy new ones and old ones still are as good as new ones. They are not making money.

Now if some ps3 brake down sony will profit from that and will make money..

(this is point of view of sony)



Post a Reply


Please Register or Login to Reply!



Affiliates | Categories | Contact Us | PS3 Hacks | PS3 Reviews | Privacy/Terms | Copyright © 2009 PlayStation 3 News.